Responses to First Learning about Affect Theory

Shame and Affect Theory (Nathanson)

Responses to First Learning about Affect Theory

by Jim Duffy a.k.a. J.C.D., 2/28/97

Thanks very much to you, Don, for a careful and extensive reply to my above question on crying. I am now wondering if anyone on this forum who has worked for some time with Affect Theory, and has discussed it with colleagues and other intelligent, informed adults, would explore the topic of possible reasons for this theory's potential to spark a what-in-the-world-are-you-talking-about reaction? I'm beginning to think it may have to do with some implicit notion that emotions are to be regarded as mysterious and that this mystery is one of their supposedly sacred aspects. But this would not explain all of the apparent bewilderment. For example, one unexpected response from a colleague was the complaint that I am wrong to refer to some affects as "negative," for this word, I was told, could itself induce shame. Maybe there's something to this, but this is hard for me to understand. For I have found Affect Theory to be reassuring, liberating me from some shame just in knowing that the function of negative affects is to have me feel "bad, negative, displeased, etc." so that I would be able to get the message to pay attention to something unwanted that I could them remove, if possible--and therby abate the unpleasantness and begin feeling joy. And I find Affect Theory to be elegantly useful in making sense of heretofore obscure matters, and the freedom from the distress of obscurity is agreeable and seems to make me less easily moved to shame. My appreciation of Affect Theory came to me slowly and awkwardly.

Several years ago I heard about Tomkins and that he had a brilliant theory of affects. So I tried to read his original volumes but found them too intimidatingly difficult to tackle alone. I gave up but wished I could better understand him, for I could see he was really dealing with very important and neglected subject matter. When I recently doscovered Don Nathanson's more reachable interpretations I first reacted as if what he was writing was too obvious. But I was haunted by the idea that since Tomkins was so hard and Nathanson so easy, maybe I was missing something in Nathanson's works. So I read Nathanson again and found out I sure had been missing a lot. Thus I've learned from my experience in first reading Tomkins that affect theory can seem very important but too hard to grasp. And later, from a too cursory reading of Nathanson, Affect Theory seemed too easy or too obvious to be so important. In short, my personal experience taught me that Affect Theory could at first beguile at least one newcomer.

I would really appreciate more discussion of anyone's hypotheses about the difficulties Affect Theory seems to pose for persons who first learn of it. I've been reading postings above showing that some forum participants have found similar reactions in themselves or others, and that has been reassuring to me. I think it is clear to me that another's apparent inability to understand my presentations of Affect Theory is a type of response to my own newfound unconcealed interest-excitement that triggers my shame insofar as a noncomprehending response from another can prematurely abate my interest-excitement. But I'm also wondering if the theory itself or something about my presentation of it may be triggering others' shame that is responsible for their noncomprehending response. Would any other forum participants be willing to share their thoughts and hypotheses on this large subject?

"I try to learn from others' mistakes because I won't have enough time in my life to make them all myself." Original source unknown to me (now adopted as my signature) --Jim Duffy

Response to Responses by Margaret Blakely, 2/28/97
- Thank You Margaret by Jim Duffy, 2/28/97
In This Forum We're Being Influenced to Travel the *Path with Heart* by c.h., 3/1/97
- Thanks for More Suppport, Chauncey by Jim Duffy, 3/1/97
  - Yes , Chauncey, Tell us more about Bly's Aproach by Rich Kuyper, 3/2/97
- Robert Bly's Groups for Men Are a Model for a New Work World by c.h., 3/2/97
  - Ordering the Robert Bly Tape and Advising New Dimensions Radio about Don's Book by c.h., 3/3/97
    - Just Breing Picky by Ed Riemann, 3/3/97
    - Ed...Thanks for the Correction...I'm Learning Several Good Things.... by c.h., 3/3/97
Creative Stupidity by Don Nathanson, 3/1/97
- Very Interesting, Don. by Jim Duffy, 3/2/97
More on Initial Responses to Affect Theory by Vick Kelly, 3/1/97
- I Thought There Was Something Like That by Jim Duffy, 3/2/97
- Rock and a Hard Place by Ed Riemann LCSW, 3/3/97
  - Intellect and Affect by Vick Kelly, 3/7/97
    - Cognition and Human Emotion by Ed Riemann, 3/8/97
      - Independence of affect and cognition by Don Nathanson, 3/8/97
        
        Projection and Interpretation by Ed Riemann, 3/9/97
        
        Read the book by Don Nathanson, 3/10/97
        
        Dan by Ed Riemann, 3/11/97
        Get On With Business by Bored, 5/17/97
- Is *Intellectualizing* a Script that is Enforced Normatively on Mental Health Professionals? by c.h., 3/7/97
  - Intellectualizing vs Being Intellectual by Ed Riemann, 3/8/97
    - A Question for Ed by Vick Kelly, 3/9/97
      - Motivation/Reaction Formation by Ed Riemann, 3/9/97
        
        Next Question(s) by Vick Kelly, 3/10/97
        
        To Vick by Ed Riemann, 3/11/97
        
        We're Getting Closer by Vick Kelly, 3/16/97
        
        1 reply
    - Transcendence of the Cognitive/Affective *Dichotomy* by Jonathan Grindlinger, 4/15/97
      - Cognitive/Affective Continuum by Ed Riemann, 4/17/97
        
        Exactly by Jonathan Grindlinger, 4/17/97
        
        Affective Emergence by Ed Riemann, 4/20/97
        
        Modularity versus Continuum by Jonathan Grindlinger, 4/23/97
        
        1 reply
  - Too Sweeping a Question by Vick Kelly, 3/9/97
    - Tomkins' Four Volumes on Order! Thank You for Your Encouragement! by c.h., 3/14/97
      - OXYGEN for READERS OF TOMKINS by Vick Kelly, 3/16/97
    - Am I Being Followed? by Jeff Elison, 1/29/99
The Question Is How Tomkins' *Scripts* Apply to Systems by c.h., 3/9/97
- Change Agents? by Ed Riemann, 3/10/97
  - We Have a Healthy Difference about Clinicians as Change Agents...and with Respect! by c.h., 3/14/97
    - Healthy Difference by Margaret Blakely, 3/15/97
    - Ditto to Margaret's Comment by Jim Duffy, 3/15/97
    - Clinical vs Advocacy by Ed Riemann, 3/19/97
      - Strong Link...and How Shame Enters into the Clinical vs Advocacy Question by c.h., 3/20/97
        
        Group Advocacy vs Client Advocacy by Ed Riemann, 3/22/97
  - Aren't We More Alike Than Different? by c.h., 3/18/97
San Francisco Postal Workers' Protest Shaming (Scripts and Systems--Learning about Affect Theory) by c.h., 3/14/97
- Postal Workers Scripts/Systems Not Unlike Hazing Mental Health Interns by c.h., 3/14/97
  - Glad You're Curious, Too, C.H. by Jim Duffy, 3/15/97
    - Einstein, Tomkins, Darwin and *Hiding Out*....... by c.h., 3/15/97
  - Narcissism, Shame, and the Taboo on Neediness Could Be Understood When the Mental Health Profession Understands Sympathy by Jim Duffy, 3/20/97
    - Sympathy unmasked by Don Nathanson, 3/21/97
      - What is Sympathy? Parts I, II, III, and IV by Jim Duffy, 3/21/97
        
        Great Dialogue...a small systems thought...Please Continue! by c.h., 3/21/97
        
        Chauncey, I Appreciate Your Appreciation by Jim Duffy, 3/22/97
        
        Sympathy for the Devil by Rich Kuyper, 3/22/97
        
        You Are The Expert on Therapy, Rich. I Will Ponder Theories with You by Jim Duffy, 3/22/97
        
        Therapy for Abusers by Margaret Blakely, 3/23/97
        
        1 reply
        
        On Support for the Sinner by Rich Kuyper, 3/24/97
        
        ....and all the siners...Saints by Ed Riemann LCSW, 3/23/97
        
        A victim's thought by sarah, 5/2/97
        
        Caring? Love? Sympathy? by Don Nathanson, 3/22/97
        
        How Does Affect Theory Explain the Care in a Caring Person? by Jim Duffy, 3/22/97
        
        Sympathy, Empathy, etc. by Margaret Blakely, 3/23/97
        
        Thanks For Your Thoughtful Input, Margaret by Jim Duffy, 3/23/97
        Margaret - Hanging out as close to the center of the compass of shame as possible. by Steve Shmurak, 10/26/97
        
        Center of Compass-Continuation by Steve Shmurak, 10/27/97
    - Humor...Margaret a *Lightweight*, Jim Washes Away *Sympathy*; What's Happening to Rich? by c.h., 3/23/97
    - Comment by Rich Kuyper, 3/25/97
      - Faith, Hope, Love, and Science Sustain Us Through a Shame Darkened March of History by Jim Duffy, 3/27/97
        
        Men and Shame....Enormous Issue Now Faced Directly by Jim! Thank you! by c.h., 3/28/97
        
        Chauncey, I Love the Work You Do by Jim Duffy, 3/28/97
        Enormous issue by Margaret Blakely, 3/28/97
        Oil and Water by Ed Riemann, 3/30/97
        
        Men and shame by Margaret Blakely, 3/28/97
        
        I Know What You Mean, Margaret by Jim Duffy, 3/29/97
        
        Woops, I Goofed Again on My Web Page Address by Jim Duffy, 3/29/97
        
        What Can Women Do about Men's Needing to Adapt to (Shaming) Systems? by c.h., 3/29/97
        
        Ed...I'm Laughing... by c.h., 3/31/97
        
        How You Play the Game by Ed Riemann, 3/31/97
      - Beggars Banquet by Ed Riemann, 3/30/97