Chauncey, Thanks for your comments. I have little doubt that shame in the workplace is contributor to the shame many of the offenders in my groups are carrying. Because so many of us are �ashamed of shame�, the form in which I often here about this is �stress� in the workplace. Scott Peck, in a book called (I believe) �A World Waiting to Be Born� has some interesting things to say about the crucial importance of civility in systems/organizations. I like Don�s comments about the counterproductiveness of a shaming prison experience. Amazing, though, how resistant to change approaches that seem so fatally flawed can be....