Jim,...I really like the way you intermix and intertwine your dialogue into a sort of tapestry of antecedence and contempory observation. Did you ever consider poetry? Those characteristics would serve you well. .........I guess it's my turn to present some of those traits that quite simply "make me me". Iam mostly of Irish heritage (Slattery/Burke/Hogan) with a persistent streak of German in me (Riemann). Unlike you I did not have the benefit of knowing most of my grangparents (other than through my family). Both grandmoms were deceased before I was born. My grandfather on my fathers side was also deceased. My surviving grandfather (Burke) on my mothers side was a drunk and a bum and basicall y without any caring for others. Not what you would call a good role model in other than a juxtaposed way. .......................................I did have the benefit of having two Uncles and an Aunt on my fathers side who were very kind people (like my father) and probably quite representative of their parents or my grandparents (Irish/German, Hogan/Riemann). Just a little on background then I will have to conclude. Your posting contained a lot of information which I have to further digest before being able to respond in a rational manner...........................................................On geneaology (I suggest you go back further yourself) the Burke's were actually of Brittish heritage . A royal Burke came to Ireland in the late eleven hundreds (about 1180) to conquor Ireland with several other Brittish eletists. Upon arriving (and conquoring) he decided that he liked the Irish people and stayed on. He became a Lord and lived the rest of his years on the old Sod. Eight hundrewd years I guess he was Irish but ......, ....The Slatteries were a member of a clan in deep southern Ireland and were probably home builders or roofers( thus the word Slate contained in the moniker). The Hogans were also clansmen of Southern Ireland and the word hogan in Gaelic literally means home or shelter. It seems quite a natural that the Slatteries and the Hogans destinies would intertwine at some point...Ther is also some Long blood within me (historical) but I sense, somehow. the true Irish were not exactly taken with these people (clans?). .................................The German side is much more complex. As tou know after WWI and WWII it was not exactly popular to be of German heritage. That side of our family was often referred to as Pennsylvania Dutch. I was told that my great grandfather came from Lancaster county to live in Philadelphia (Iam a "Philly boy"). The only thing that Iam absolutely sure of on that side of 'me family is they had a VERY strong mathmatical orientation. This has been demonstrated through my art work (all linear and elliptical Geometrics/Abstract constructions). Iam a metal sculptor by art. I think somewhere in the past we had a very frustrated mathmatician who suffered to be a artist (probably like Van Gogh a lot/he would have been a contempory).....Well, enough about me.....As Brian would say Iam "polishing the mirror" a wee bit ta mooch.......Continued correspondence valued........Ed