Ginger Schenck's comments about the importance of complexity are well said. There is the complexity of the patient, the complexity of the therapeutic process, and the complexity of the many appropriate theoretical points of view that apply to a given situation. I agree that it is possible to answer all the questions Ginger Schenck proposes in the affirmitive. I am also a believer in the most accurate description being Kathy's description. I will have more to add on this at the end of the case. For now, I would like to answer some of the specific questions about Kathy. At this point in the treatment, Kathy's contact and emotional involvement with her family was not enmeshed. The pathological loyalties that I talk about with Kathy do not involve enmeshment. Kathy was living in another state now for several years. She talked with her mother by phone and her father by phone. Her parents were in the middle of a bad divorce and each was vying for Kathy's loyalty and support. Kathy felt pulled to help her mother for whom she felt sorry because her mother was so unable to take care of herself very well. I would describe her attachment as being made up of pathological loyalties, but I would not describe her as enmeshed with her family at all. The ties to her family are very complex - some are based on pathological guilt, others are based on a normal need for attachment, and I'm sure there are many others. The issue of the possible threat of the loss of the therapeutic relationship was important for Kathy and did arise periodically during treatment. What Kathy and I established was that she could always contact me at my private practice. She knew where my office was and borrowed a book once from me so had to pick it up at my office. That potential for contact was important for Kathy and she has made use of it periodically over the years since our work at the University was completed. In fact, I encouraged her to stay in touch by mail or phone and she has made use of this resource over the years. Sometimes, she writes to tell me all the good things that are happening to her and her family (nuclear). Sometimes, she writes about the growth in her relationship with her mother or the problems still with her relationship with her mother. I always respond in some fashion, whether by phone or letter. I hope this answers some of your questions, and thank you for reminding us all of the importance of complexity.